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<journal-title><![CDATA[Revista de Estudios Sociales]]></journal-title>
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<issn>0123-885X</issn>
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<publisher-name><![CDATA[Facultad de Ciencias Sociales, Universidad de los Andes]]></publisher-name>
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<article-title xml:lang="en"><![CDATA[Rethinking the Relation between Science and Religion: Some Epistemological and Political Implications]]></article-title>
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<surname><![CDATA[Iranzo Dosdad]]></surname>
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<institution><![CDATA[,University of Chicago  ]]></institution>
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<institution><![CDATA[,University of Chicago Universidad Autónoma de Madrid ]]></institution>
<addr-line><![CDATA[Madrid ]]></addr-line>
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<numero>51</numero>
<fpage>258</fpage>
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</front><body><![CDATA[   <font face="verdana" size="2">       <p align=center><font size="4"><b>Rethinking the Relation between Science and Religion</b></font>:<font size="3"><b> Some Epistemological and  Political Implications </b></font></p>       <p><b> Interview of Mauricio Nieto<sup><a    name="s*" href="#*">*</a></sup>  , Franklin Gamwell<sup><a    name="s**" href="#**">**</a></sup>By &Aacute;ngela Iranzo Dosdad<sup><a    name="s***" href="#***">***</a></sup>  , Carlos Manrique<sup><a    name="s****" href="#****">****</a></sup></b></p>      <p><sup><a href="#s*" name="*">*</a></sup>  		PhD. in History of Science &#40;University of London, UK&#41;. Vice-Dean of  		Research and Graduate Studies at the School of Social Sciences, and  		tenured professor of the History Department at Universidad de los Andes,  		Colombia.  		Email: 		<a href="mailto:mnieto@uniandes.edu.co">mnieto@uniandes.edu.co</a> </p> 		      <p><sup><a href="#s**" name="**">**</a></sup>  		Ph.D. in Philosophy of Religions &#40;University of Chicago,  		UE&#41;. 		Shailer Mathews Distinguished Service Professor Emeritus of Religious  		Ethics, the Philosophy of Religions, and Theology at the Divinity School  		at the University of Chicago. Email: 		<a href="mailto:figamwel@uchicago.edu">figamwel@uchicago.edu</a> </p> 		     <p> <sup><a href="#s***" name="***">***</a></sup>  		PhD in Political Science and International Relations &#40;Universidad  		Aut&oacute;noma de Madrid, Spain&#41;.  		Professor of the Political Science Department at Universidad de los  		Andes, Colombia. Email:  		<a href="mailto:a.iranzo26@uniandes.edu.co">a.iranzo26@uniandes.edu.co</a> </p>      <p><sup><a href="#s****" name="****">****</a></sup>  		Ph.D. in Philosophy of Religion &#40;University of Chicago, UE&#41;. Assistant  		Professor of the Philosophy Department at Universidad de los Andes,  		Colombia. Email:  		<a href="mailto:ca.manrique966@uniandes.edu.co">ca.manrique966@uniandes.edu.co</a> </p>        <p>DOI:<a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.7440/res51.2015.19" target="_blank">http://dx.doi.org/10.7440/res51.2015.19</a> </p>  <hr size="1">       <p><b>In  contemporary western societies we have become used to thinking of the relation  between &quot;science&quot; and &quot;religion&quot; &#40;or between &quot;faith&quot; and &quot;reason&quot;&#41; in  disjunctive terms, assuming a necessary opposition and/or the overcoming of one  of them by the other &#40;science as an understanding of the world necessarily  opposed to religious beliefs and practices, one which tends historically to  overcome the latter in the progress of civilization&#41;. An example of this  pervasive assumption is the widespread narrative that frequently appears in  elementary and secondary school history programs regarding the Church&#39;s  persecution of Galileo and his final condemnation for heresy due to his  pioneering scientific discoveries. Another perspective that was influential in  forming this same pervasive assumption was the clear-cut Kantian separation  between a theoretical use of reason -capable of yielding an objective, necessary  and universal scientific knowledge of empirical phenomena expressed in the laws  discovered by science, as distinct from the practical use of reason to guide us  in how to live, beyond the limits of all positive knowledge of the world. This  same conception was formulated later in the distinction drawn by Weber between  the &quot;facts&quot; that social sciences are called on to describe objectively and the  &quot;value judgments&quot; relegated to the subjective spheres of morality and religion.  Without attempting to identify the precise historical origins of this widespread  interpretation of a necessary opposition between science and religion, how would  you, in your work as a historian of science / as a theologian, submit it to a  critical assessment and, hence, argue in favor of reconsidering this dominant  conception of the relation between science and religion as an unbridgeable  dichotomy?</b></p>       <p><b>Mauricio Nieto &#40;MN&#41;</b>:  There certainly is a long and dominant historiographical tradition that has  narrated the rise of modern science as a triumph of reason over faith, of  experience over superstition, and one which assumes that western Europe is the  cradle of a superior form of rational, objective, neutral, scientific knowledge  in opposition to the beliefs of others and to religious dogmas in themselves.  However, this assumption, according to which a new and unique form of secular,  rational, objective and neutral knowledge arose more or less spontaneously in  some corner of western Europe is very difficult to sustain. The very idea of a  &quot;Scientific Revolution&quot; has been severely questioned, and the search for a  father, a place, or a historic moment to explain the origin of modern science  has become increasingly difficult. There is abundant and very convincing  literature in the history and the sociology of science that offers us a much  more complex narrative today, and one of the key topics in recent debates on the  history of science is precisely the question of its relation to religion.</p>         ]]></body>
<body><![CDATA[<p>Let us start with the obvious; the historical period and the protagonists of the  traditional idea of a &quot;Scientific Revolution&quot; are all marked by a profound  spirituality. The idea that the 16th and 17th centuries witnessed the  consolidation of a new rational philosophy as opposed to faith and belief is  unsustainable. The Iberian explorers of the New World, and figures like  Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Boyle, Bacon, Descartes, all the heroes of  that supposed scientific revolution, were profoundly religious and in most cases  their works are rendered meaningless without their theological conceptions of  the universe.</p>       <p>The case of Galileo is a good example of this idealized history of a  revolutionary type of thought. His story shows those epic nuances of the free  thinker who opposed the irrational obscurantism of the Church, but this is  actually a dramatized history that is more in tune with the notions of 19th and  20th century science than with those of Renaissance Europe. The authority of a  figure like Galileo, we know, was made possible in part due to his connections  to both court and church. Of course there really were tensions and persecutions  by the Inquisition with respect to the difficult ideas of Copernicanism, but to  look for the fathers of a new philosophy that broke with all of ancient and  medieval tradition in the 17th century is a task that is doomed to fail. A quick  look at some of the names that are often linked to the birth of modern science  make this difficulty evident. Ren&eacute; Descartes is, for many, the father of  rationalism or of mechanical philosophy and modern thought, but it is obvious  that all of his philosophy sought a metaphysical and theological foundation. In  the same light, we can see that the thinking of Boyle, Newton or any of the  other great heroes of modern philosophy would be incomprehensible without the  notion of God.</p>       <p>On the other hand, the idea of a radical epistemological rupture that was unique  to the European Renaissance is equally problematic. It is evident that medieval  philosophy, which has traditionally been considered a slave to religion, played  a definitive role in what we understand as modern science today. To a great  extent, the notion of modern science has to do with the consolidation of a new  natural philosophy, a new cosmology and a new physics that broke away from  Aristotelian paradigms, but what is not always evident is the fact that this  distancing from the natural philosophy of Aristotle has its origins in Christian  theology and its effort to consolidate a philosophical foundation for Christian  dogma. Nor do I believe that it is possible to understand what we call modern  science today without recognizing its relation to the Hermetic tradition, to  magic, and to forms of Neoplatonism that sought to understand God through  observation and the study, not only of his word -Sacred Scripture- but also of  his work, Nature itself.</p>       <p>Western science and Christian theology, more than being two opposite,  antagonistic, irreconcilable traditions, actually share both a past and very  deep common bases. John Hedley Brooke &#40;1991&#41; has gathered together many of the  complex interactions between science and religion from a historical perspective.  Brooke as well as other historians of science have revised the common narrative  of a conflict between a religious mentality and a scientific one, the former  founded on faith, the latter grounded in verifiable facts and rigorous, rational  methods. Today it is evident that the relations between theology and natural  philosophy are complex and may even share fundamental elements. This is not the  place to go into details about the complexity of these relations at different  moments in the history of western philosophy, but it may be useful to remember  that the very possibility of understanding the natural order and confiding in  causal relations is based on the assumption of a theological concept of Nature  in which the idea of design and, therefore, of a rational creator is a necessary  condition for human knowledge of the natural order. Stephen Gaukroger &#40;2006&#41;,  from a much more philosophical perspective, convincingly shows us the  theological roots of modern western philosophy. In most traditional histories of  modern science and its great heroes like Johannes Kepler, Robert Boyle and Isaac  Newton, little or no importance is given to the fact that all of them, with no  exception, shared a common religious mentality, and their scientific and  theological concerns cannot be separated. Furthermore, the idea of the more or  less spontaneous birth of modern culture is usually explained as an achievement  of the 17th century as if the great philosophers of Christianity such as St.  Augustine or St. Thomas do not form part of modern intellectual history, which  is very questionable if we take into account the fact that modern philosophy in  the western world is undeniably rooted in the scholastic tradition.</p>       <p><b>Franklin Gamwell &#40;FG&#41;</b>:  The &quot;unbridgeable dichotomy&quot; to which this question refers is implied if science  in relation to religion is equated with reason in relation to faith. On that  equation, critical reasoning about the world is exhausted by science, so that  religious convictions can only be &quot;matters of faith,&quot; meaning thereby beliefs  immune to critical or rational validation or invalidation. I am here assuming  that science is disciplined empirical inquiry, that is, a pursuit of knowledge  about certain contingent facts, and thus all scientific statements can be denied  without self-contradiction. If critical reflection about the world is exhausted  by such inquiry, all conditions of existence are contingent, and no statement  that asserts any such condition is necessarily true. Science and religion then  constitute an unbridgeable dichotomy because religions include beliefs about the  proper ends and thus the worth of human life in general or as such, and  contingent facts never imply anything about the good in human life. Any such  supposed implication commits what has come to be called the naturalistic  fallacy. Given solely contingent conditions of existence, then, no assertion  about worth or the good to be realized can be validated without positing a prior  such assertion in need of validation. Hence, all such assertions are dogmatic,  immune to critical or rational assessment.</p>       <p>That all meaningful statements about the world are logically contingent is, I am  persuaded, essential to secularism in all of its expressions and widely affirmed  in contemporary western thought. Nonetheless, some secularists -for instance,  Kant and some Kantians- hold that moral as well as scientific assertions are  objects of rational assessment. On this basis, moreover, Kant himself advanced a  solely practical interpretation of religion that purports to be independent of  any statement about conditions of existence. If all such conditions are  contingent, however, I doubt that any supposedly rational account of morality  can succeed. As far as I can see, all moral theories at least implicitly affirm,  even if some explicitly deny doing so, an end or state or affairs to be  maximized or pursued, so that purposes in their entirety ought to be directed to  it. Hence, given the secularistic premise about existence, evaluation cannot  escape the need always to posit a prior evaluation assertion.</p>       <p>On that analysis, secularism reduces practical reason to instrumental thought in  service to ends nonrationally chosen. One thinker has called this the modern  &quot;complementarity system of value-free rationality and pre-rational value  decisions&quot; &#40;Apel 1979, 38&#41;. Facts can be public, and values are inherently  private, and religion includes entirely general statements about what is  entirely private. David Hume and Max Weber then command the field. Still, I will  not defend this reading of secularism -and, instead, will assume it and note the  following: that the world is exhausted by the kind of facts science seeks to  discover cannot itself be one of those facts. That all conditions of existence  are contingent cannot itself be a contingent condition of existence; it can only  be a necessary condition of all things, such that assertion of it cannot be  denied without self-contradiction.</p>       <p>Even then, one might endorse this necessity by insisting that &quot;nothing exists,&quot;  meaning the complete absence of everything, is itself logically possible,  whereby the presence of anything at all is indeed necessarily contingent. But  that insistence is especially difficult to defend, and I hold that &quot;nothing  exists&quot; or &quot;there might have been sheer nothing&quot; is itself logically impossible  or nonsensical -because it cannot be distinguished from a putative statement  &#40;for instance, a self-contradictory statement&#41; that says nothing at all. Again,  I will not pursue this argument, but if the conclusion is correct, &quot;something  exists&quot; is a logically necessary statement, and reasoning about the world  includes the metaphysical project. Here, metaphysics is critical reflection that  seeks to clarify the necessary conditions of existence, that is, to explicate  the implications of &quot;something exists.&quot; A true metaphysics explicates ultimate  reality, the ultimate nature of things -and provides the terms in which the  relation between science and religion may be reconceived.</p>       <p>Given necessary conditions of existence, all human life includes an experience  of them; what is necessarily present is always present in human experience,  characterizing the past we inherit, the present, and the future about which we  decide. We may, then, define religion in terms of the abiding human relation to  ultimate reality. That relation defines the ultimate worth of human life  because, summarily stated, decision with understanding necessarily compares its  alternatives for purpose <i>with respect to choosing</i>, thereby evaluating  them, and the fallacy of so comparing them in terms of some logically contingent  understanding of existence is no longer in force. In other words, metaphysical  conditions define or include a good given in the ultimate nature of things and  whose realization human decisions are bound to maximize.</p>       <p>On my accounting, religions are not themselves metaphysical proposals. To the  contrary, a religion is a cultural formation of concepts and symbols, including  symbolic practices, in which some belief about human life in relation to  ultimate reality is so represented explicitly that adherents of the religion  may, by focusing on it, cultivate expression of that belief in all of their  activity. The function of religion, we can say, is to mediate an existential  understanding of ourselves in relation to the entirety of which we are parts.  But if not themselves metaphysical proposals, religions <i>imply</i> a set of  metaphysical claims, precisely because the understanding a religion seeks to  mediate concerns one&#39;s relation to ultimate reality. In that way, each religion  attempts to make explicit what is always present in the experience of all  humans.</p>       ]]></body>
<body><![CDATA[<p>For this reason, religions are not &quot;matters of faith&quot; if that term means a  belief immune to rational validation or invalidation. Each religion may indeed  be called a faith because its function is to cultivate an existential  understanding of our ultimate worth. But every religious representation can be  critically assessed by formulating its metaphysical and moral implications and  asking whether they accord with the inescapable human relation to ultimate  reality. Critical thought of this kind, Iris Murdoch once wrote, is &quot;determined  to <i>argue</i> for something it already <i>knows</i>&quot; &#40;Murdoch 1993, 435&#41;.  Religious convictions can themselves be rationally validated and invalidated  because they seek to make explicit something in human experience implied by  every human belief and activity -and from religion so understood, an alternative  view of its relation to science follows.</p>       <p>Metaphysical conditions not only make possible the ultimate worth of human life  but also constitute the abiding aspect of the world empirical science  investigates. Such conditions are common to subjects who decide, on the one  hand, and to the objects of science, on the other. Moreover, science is an  activity of subjects and, like all of our activities, is something we decide to  pursue because we affirm it as worthy. Accordingly, science is properly ordered  by the truth about our ultimate worth each religion seeks explicitly to  represent. This in no way denies that many facts -indeed, all facts about the  world except those at the very highest or necessary level of abstraction- are  contingent, and therefore the scientific method, proper to critical reasoning  about some contingent facts, is autonomous within the realm to which it applies.  Nor does this account in any way imply that science should be controlled by any  specific practical purpose or particular religious community or tradition. The  point is simply this: our true relation to ultimate reality, whose critical  explication includes a true metaphysics, is the reason for the scientific  enterprise, thereby setting the proper terms for defining the scientific method  and for conceiving the relation of religion and science.</p>       <p><b>The  dichotomy described in the previous question presupposes a set of  epistemological claims that have political implications, in terms of enabling  some and disabling other possibilities for thinking, acting and judging the  social order in which we live and the historical becoming through which it has  been constituted. For example, the presumed epistemic superiority of the  language of modern sciences over the language of mythological or religious  discourses as grids for making the world and the human condition intelligible is  an integral part of how the political history of the encounters between modern  western nation-states and their colonized &quot;others&quot; is narrated. Or, to offer  another example, this alleged epistemic superiority easily leads to a  secularistic conception of political agency as a history-constituting and  history-transforming power, widely dominant in the context of modern societies.  This conception does not allow us to understand and think through the ways in  which religious discourses and practices have been decisive in forming  significant practices of political resistance like the civil rights movement in  the United States. A set of epistemological claims can profoundly condition the  ontology of the social world of which we consider ourselves to be a part,  silencing other ways of understanding history and the type of agency that can  configure it, or transform it. In the trajectory of your work, how do you  understand the relation between epistemology and politics &#40;or between  epistemological and political problems&#41;, in connection to the science-religion  dyad of which we have been speaking? Or to put it somewhat differently, what are  the implications in our understanding of the political that derive from the way  we assume a set of epistemological claims to draw the distinction between  science and religion in a certain way?</b></p>        <p><b>MN</b>:  Nothing is more powerful than Truth and that is a common element in both science  and religion. Authority, order and dominion have to do with the existence of  subjects with the authority to speak for others. The very idea of Truth  eliminates any possibility of debate or of public participation; it is contrary  to opinion or diversity. Once Truth and its spokesmen arrive, the public arena  is left vacant; it is, so to speak, the end of politics. </p>       <p>We could argue that the main concern of current social studies of science &#40;among  historians, philosophers, and sociologists of knowledge&#41; is the problem of  power, of how the relations between knowledge and politics are formed. Thus, the  relation between epistemology and politics is total. The great problem of power,  from the viewpoint of a historian of science, has to do with understanding how  the spokesmen of Truth are constituted, that is to say individuals, or better  yet, social groups, that have the authority to speak for everyone else. The  birth of modern science and the European Enlightenment are fundamentally changes  in political history; it is, once again, the battle for Truth. Who has the truth  about nature, about the human body, about society, about economics and, of  course, about eternity... it is a powerful agent in the constitution of order,  both social and natural. It is in this sense that we cannot understand politics  outside of the religious or scientific spheres.</p>       <p>Let&#39;s think about the great historical processes of, for example, the empires of  Christian Europe and their conquest of much of the planet, which has been  justified precisely by the idea of Christian Europe as the bearer of religious  and scientific truths. The discovery and conquest of America were motivated and  justified by the propagation of Christian dogma; the domination as well as the  extermination of other cultures were carried out in the name of God, of a truth  that had to be spread or imposed for the good of humankind. The manifestation of  cultural or scientific superiority that imposed western European ways of  understanding, ordering and operating on nature and society was not very  different. </p>       <p>It might be worthwhile clarifying here that the relations between science and  politics should not be understood as the interaction between distinct spheres or  as instrumental relations in which science is influenced by or operates in the  name of politics; it is more a question of understanding science as politics. It  is not a matter, for example, of explaining science within the context of  imperial history, but rather as imperial history. In fact, it is practices such  as geography, natural history, medicine, economics, forms of power in action,  practices that shape new natural and social orders and simultaneously shape  practices that constitute the subjects that define said orders. A similar  reflection should be made regarding religion and politics, thinking not so much  of religion at the service of politics, as an instrument of power, but rather of  religion as politics and as power.</p>       <p><b>FG</b>:  On my accounting, the supposed dichotomy between science and religion follows  from the secularistic assumption that all conditions of existence are  contingent. On the correlative account of epistemology, both morality and  religion involve nonrational beliefs, and practical reason is reduced to its  instrumental service toward ends humans are left merely to decide or posit. This  reading takes issue with those for whom a secularistic morality can be rational,  but I also expressed doubt that any such proposal can succeed. To the best of my  reasoning, human decision as such chooses among alternatives for purpose, and  every moral theory at least implies an understanding of worth or the good that  properly directs purposes in their entirety -and no such understanding can be  validated if all conditions of existence are contingent.</p>       <p>Given the reductive account of practical reason, the consequences for political  life are considerable. If human ends are nonrational, human association is  properly seen as the interaction of strategically concerned individuals or  groups, each relating to the others in terms of its own private purposes.  Political life is reduced to the accidental conflict and concord of private  interests and thus, unless violence or war results, to bargaining negotiations.  The model for such interaction is the concept of economic exchange, where each  party calculates benefits in terms of its preferences in order to reach an  agreement. In sum, the rationalization of society is rightly captured in Weber&#39;s  description of modernity, and something similar characterizes the interaction  among nations.</p>       <p>To be sure, modern western political theories have often purported to be  democratic. Procedures of fair interaction, sometimes including principles for a  distribution of resources in accord with some account of equal opportunity, are  said to provide the context within which nonrational interests or purposes are  acceptable -and norms for international relations are sometimes derived from  these democratic proposals. Liberalism in political thought is often said to be  the consequence, and many theories of this kind imply dominance within the  social order of economic institutions and goals -precisely because they are  thought to provide all-purpose means to diverse private ends. But secularism as  described above prevents, I believe, any democratic principles of justice all  citizens have reason to consider prescriptive. What counts for individuals and  groups as good relations to other people will depend on what is affirmed as the  inclusive good that action should pursue -and if, in each case, the latter is  nonrational, rational norms for politics cannot be derived.</p>       ]]></body>
<body><![CDATA[<p>This reading of secularistic democratic theories is confirmed by their attempts  to interpret the constitutional principle of religious freedom. Given  constitutional legitimization of, and thus governmental neutrality toward,  diverse religious convictions &#40;or, more extensively, what John Rawls calls  comprehensive doctrines&#41;, how is principled common action and thus political  community possible? The pluralism in question, virtually all agree, involves  convictions about the overall or inclusive orientation of human life, and  secularistic theories of religious freedom typically propose to separate public  reason or democratic principles from any one of these orientations. Such  independence is thought to be required because the convictions legitimized at  least include religious beliefs, and they are assumed to be nonrational &quot;matters  of faith.&quot; Hence, principled neutrality toward the entire class entails  separation from any member thereof.</p>       <p>As far as I can see, however, this solution is untenable. Each conviction about  the inclusive orientation of human life implies that all principles of justice  depend on it, and relevant disagreement among religions or comprehensive  doctrines is a conflict at the most fundamental level of political evaluation. A  proposal in which justice is separated from any one is, then, a denial of all of  them -or, what comes to the same thing, a competitive assertion about the most  fundamental character of justice. Because the beliefs religious freedom  legitimizes are said to be nonrational, the principled separation that  governmental neutrality is said to require must be constitutionally stipulated -  and thereby the constitution contradicts itself, explicitly denying the  convictions it also protects. In truth, a legitimized plurality of nonrational  convictions about justice as such cannot be civilized; the only alternatives are  a <i>modus vivendi</i> or a fight.</p>       <p>If secularistic epistemology makes religious freedom incoherent, the alternative  opened by the metaphysical project entails an alternative account of democracy.  Differing religions are now understood as differing attempts to explicate our  common human experience of ultimate reality and our ultimate worth. Thereby, all  convictions about the inclusive orientation of our activities can be critically  assessed as valid or invalid -and the principle of religious freedom is no  longer inconsistent with political community: a legitimate diversity of beliefs  about the fundamental terms of political evaluation can be civilized through a  full and free political discourse. To be sure, activities of the state informed  by this discourse cannot be independent of all such beliefs but, rather, will <i> imply</i> some or other fundamental terms of justice -namely, those the  discourse of the relevant majority of democratic citizens, at least at a given  time, finds convincing. But those activities may still be <i>explicitly</i>  neutral to the diversity if the government is always prohibited from teaching  anything about the religion or comprehensive doctrine any activity of the state  does or does not imply.</p>       <p>Focus on the coherence of religious freedom is a window on the political  consequences of an adequate metaphysics. Given that convictions about worth in  human life as such are properly objects of rational assessment, political life  is not interaction among and for the sake of private interests or ends but,  rather, is properly directed by a common human vocation we all find in our  experience. Democracy constitutes a full and free discussion and debate seeking  to clarify that vocation and apply it to activities of the state. A secularistic  account of liberal politics then becomes one more proposal about our relation to  ultimate reality -and is, moreover, pragmatically self-refuting because it  asserts the nonrational character of such proposals.</p>      <p>I will, then, simply assert my own neoclassical convictions about the necessary  conditions of existence: the metaphysically fundamental things are social in  character. Each is a present event defined by its internal relations to events  of the past and its decision how to condition the future, and worth or the good  is defined by the creativity made possible by those relations and achieved by  unifying them for the sake of subsequent events. The implication for morality, I  will also simply assert, is a comprehensive purpose prescribing, with due  attention to value in the nonhuman world, unification or activity in pursuit of  maximal human sociality, a common world of human achievements I will call our  maximal common humanity -so that all humans flourish because each is empowered  insofar as possible by relations to all of the others. Political purpose, then,  properly seeks to provide or promote the general conditions required to maximize  this common humanity -even if that principle of public purpose should only be  implied by activities of the state and is properly explicit only in the  political discourse. I recognize the terse and, perhaps, cryptic nature of this  formulation. But its intent is simply to underscore by illustration how the  rational character of religious convictions and their metaphysical implications  entails a conception of politics as itself properly directed by an ideal -which  is, given neoclassical metaphysics, humanitarian -ever-present in the experience  of us all.</p>      <p><b>From  the perspective of your field of academic research &#40;as a historian of science /  as a theologian&#41;, is it possible, and if so how, to reflect upon a divine agency  in the eventfulness of historical and social realities or processes &#40;for  instance, in the way it is performed by political actors directly implied in  these processes&#41;? And why would it be important, if it is, from the perspective  of your academic work, to resist the stigma of &quot;irrationality&quot; that constantly  threatens to invalidate or silence a reflection of this type?</b></p>       <p><b>MN:</b>  In his book <i>The Personal God</i>, Ulrich Beck says with good reason: &quot;We  carry the language of secularism in our blood,&quot; and presents us with the  enormous difficulty that sociology encounters in dealing with the subject of  religious experiences. We could say that true heresy for the world of modern  science is the incorporation of agency or divine forces into history; that is to  say, we can see an evident failure of the social sciences in their explanation  of the spiritual. The religious sphere presents a challenge, a notable  difficulty for the social sciences, which are essentially secular. Are there any  alternatives for understanding the spiritual with respect to secularization? Let  us start by recalling that it has not always been this way. In the writings and  historical explanations of 16th century Christian chroniclers, we find that God,  the saints, the Virgin Mary, and demons all played definitive roles in history.  Their version of history is explicitly providential, and the cause of what  happens in history is the will of God. Nonetheless, a long and dominant  historiographical tradition has reduced the religious to the level of irrational  beliefs. This reduction of the religious to false beliefs eventually reduces the  religious to the realm of rhetoric or representation. Thus, in its relation to  great historical processes such as the conquest of America, the religious or the  spiritual appears in modern historiography as merely accessory factors,  subordinated to &quot;more real&quot; factors such as economics, trade, or politics, which  are considered the true agents of history. However, I do not believe it is  possible to understand the history of the expansion of Christianity in the 16th  century, for example, if we leave aside religious experience, or even the power  of God. The sources to which we have access in our efforts to understand the  16th century make it evident that human actions and historic events were carried  out in the name of God.</p>       <p>I believe that there are different options to explore with respect to this  problem. Within the framework of Social Studies of Science, a certain  theoretical proposal has gained importance which I believe could offer  interesting alternatives. Bruno Latour, John Law, Michael Callon, among others,  most likely tired of the very generalized social explanation of scientific  knowledge, wanted to incorporate the agency of non-human actors into their  historical explanations. In the final decades of the 20th century, the  expression &quot;social construction&quot; of this and that was used very frequently, and  reality itself was presented as a social construct, thus giving the impression  that sociology could explain everything. This position is based on a major and  problematic assumption, which is that society is less complex than the natural  world, and given this difficulty, the interesting proposal of incorporating  non-human agents into historical explanations has appeared in sociology, which  has been denominated the Actor Network Theory &#40;ANT&#41;. This is not the time to go  into detail about the work of this school of sociologists; the point is not only  to consider their call to incorporate the agency of artifacts or natural  entities in the conformation of networks that will make it possible to  understand the history of scientific theories and technological practices, but  to extend this notion of agency of the non-human to divine &quot;actors&quot; as well. I  do not know of any proposals from this perspective to refer to &quot;divine agents,&quot;  but neither do I see any reason to exclude them. Finally, we must remember that  the role of actors in terms of networks is explained as a result of the  interaction among heterogeneous agents. The actors do not operate, which means  they do not exist outside of these interactions; they do not precede the  networks, but are instead a product of them. In this order of ideas, both a  saint and a demon possess &quot;agency&quot; to the extent that they interact with humans  and with nature, and I see no reason not to recognize their power. This historic  recognition of divine power assumes neither that we will become mystic  sociologists nor believers in religious doctrines. It is rather a matter of a  secular sociology capable of incorporating the agency of the non-human. It is  possible that not too many concessions will be required of contemporary social  sciences to recognize the agency of artifacts, of the printing press on modern  culture, of the ships and navigation instruments used in Europe&#39;s conquest of  the seas; it is equally plausible to invoke geographical, biological or physical  aspects in history. It is widely accepted today that the European conquest of  America would be difficult to explain without considering biological factors  such as the role of European diseases and the effects they had on the vulnerable  immune systems of the native population. What would have become of Columbus&#39;  adventure or enterprise without the winds and ocean currents of the Atlantic?</p>       <p>However, the inclusion of saints, demons or gods in modern history is much more  difficult to accept. The tone of the Christian chroniclers sounds both strange  and inadequate to us, as does the reason they give for the historic events of  the 16th century. Is this an absurd way of explaining the Christian history of  the 16th century? Is it not evident that human actions had and in many cases  still continue to have spiritual motivations? Is God not the most powerful of  all actors in the history of the expansion of Christianity, a God in whose name  monarchs, soldiers, priests, captains and sailors all acted?</p>       <p><b>FG</b>:  If ultimate reality is present to us all, and neoclassical metaphysics rightly  defines the good, a divine individual is, I believe, implied. Here, God is  conceived as that-than-which-nothing-greater-can-be-thought. Given a social  purpose in the ultimate nature of things, the greatest possible individual must  be the eminently temporal whole of reality, whose sociality presently unifies in  all of its detail all that has ever occurred and whose future moments will  always add in all of their detail new occurrences as they become present. One  way to explicate the implication of deity is the following: worldly decision for  maximal good inescapably seeks its realization in a future multiplicity of  events, for instance, in the creative achievements of human persons; but this  maximizing makes no sense unless the many realizations pursued are somehow  summated or unified. Moreover, the unification must be concrete because the  realizations pursued -for instance, the human achievements- will be concrete. A  temporal individual each of whose presents is the concrete whole of strictly all  reality is required.</p>       ]]></body>
<body><![CDATA[<p>On this account, the ultimate worth of our lives is nothing other than the  difference they make to God, whose sociality is itself maximized when we seek  the greatest good for the worldly future. Further, the worth is ultimate because  inclusion of our deeds and their worldly effects within the divine is  everlasting, whereby they &quot;make a difference which no turn of events in the  future has the power to annul&quot; &#40;Ogden 1996, 36&#41;. As far as I can see, we all  affirm this permanent worth whenever we decide with understanding. The supposed  thought that what we do will eventually be worthless, canceled by the sands of  time, is something no human can really believe. Evaluation of our alternatives  is, in truth, all things considered -and eventual nullity is a meaningless  consideration for practical reason. If nothing ultimate is at stake in what we  do, then ultimately nothing is at stake.</p>       <p>Given that reason commends fundamental terms of political evaluation dependent  on metaphysical theism, common human experience includes an experience of God.  But this in no way implies what has often been asserted as &quot;a divine agency in  the eventfulness of historical and social realities.&quot; At least on many  formulations, God is a completely eternal absolute that chose to create a  completely contingent world and has the power to intervene by choice in worldly  affairs. In our social and political life, then, special events may interrupt  the course of human or natural causality because eternity for its own purposes  then and there breaks into worldly history -and, correspondingly, we may  petition for such special activity.</p>       <p>That conception bears the &quot;stigma of irrationality&quot; because the character of  this eternity cannot be present in common human experience and thus cannot be  established by critical reasoning. As is often acknowledged by advocates of this  idea, it defines God literally by complete negation of all worldly  characteristics &#40;for instance, temporality, contingency, or dependence&#41;, and all  positive characterization of God must be mythical or symbolic. Accordingly, the  divine character must be suprarational and thus known only through its special  disclosure or revelation. This all too pervasive notion of the transcendent  reality has played its part in confirming the secularistic view of science and  religion -that is, a world in all respects contingent, such that critical  inquiry about it is exhausted by science, and religious belief is immune to  reasoned assessment.</p>       <p>Against that notion, the affirmation of metaphysical sociality implies the  necessity of some or other world as well as the necessity of God. An eminently  social whole of reality depends on nondivine realities; a worldly class with  some or other members must also exist, even while each one exists contingently  because it relates to others fragmentarily. Among individuals, the divine alone  exists necessarily, always unifying the whole completely. Only as this  all-inclusive reality, if I see the matter rightly, can God&#39;s character be  ever-present in the entire world -so that science is properly ordered and  politics properly directed by the abiding relation to ultimate reality religions  seek explicitly to represent.</p>       <p>It remains that God&#39;s agency is essential to our life together -not through  special divine interventions within history but, rather, through the divine  purpose present in common human experience. Because the future of human affairs  and, indeed, of the whole world is also the future of the deity who alone gives  ultimate worth to human life, we have a common affection for the humanitarian  ideal, and divine agency is essential to the presence of this telos in every  person and in our common life, giving point to politics itself. The truth about  our lives attaches us, we may say, to the beloved community because we are  attached to its God.</p> <hr size="1">      <p><b>References</b></p>      <!-- ref --><p> 1.  Apel, Karl-Otto. 1979.  &quot;The  Common Presuppositions of Hermeneutics and Ethics: Types of Rationality beyond  Science and Technology&quot;. <i>Research in  Phenomenology</i> 9: 35-53.    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[&#160;<a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="javascript: window.open('/scielo.php?script=sci_nlinks&ref=000049&pid=S0123-885X201500010002000001&lng=','','width=640,height=500,resizable=yes,scrollbars=1,menubar=yes,');">Links</a>&#160;]<!-- end-ref --> </p>      <!-- ref --><p> 2.  Brooke, John Hedley. 1991.<i> Science and Religion: Some historical perspectives</i>.  Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[&#160;<a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="javascript: window.open('/scielo.php?script=sci_nlinks&ref=000051&pid=S0123-885X201500010002000002&lng=','','width=640,height=500,resizable=yes,scrollbars=1,menubar=yes,');">Links</a>&#160;]<!-- end-ref --> </p>      ]]></body>
<body><![CDATA[<!-- ref --><p> 3.  Gaukroger, Stephen. 2006. <i>The Emergence of a Scientific Culture: Science and  the Shaping of Modernity 1210-1685</i>. Oxford: Oxford University Press.    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[&#160;<a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="javascript: window.open('/scielo.php?script=sci_nlinks&ref=000053&pid=S0123-885X201500010002000003&lng=','','width=640,height=500,resizable=yes,scrollbars=1,menubar=yes,');">Links</a>&#160;]<!-- end-ref -->  </p>     <!-- ref --><p> 4.  Murdoch, Iris. 1993. <i>Metaphysics as a Guide to Morals</i>. New York: Allen  Lane – Penguin Press.    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[&#160;<a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="javascript: window.open('/scielo.php?script=sci_nlinks&ref=000055&pid=S0123-885X201500010002000004&lng=','','width=640,height=500,resizable=yes,scrollbars=1,menubar=yes,');">Links</a>&#160;]<!-- end-ref --></p>      <!-- ref --><p> 5.  Ogden, Schubert M. 1996. <i>The Reality of God and Other Essays</i>. New York:  Harper &amp; Row.    &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;[&#160;<a href="javascript:void(0);" onclick="javascript: window.open('/scielo.php?script=sci_nlinks&ref=000057&pid=S0123-885X201500010002000005&lng=','','width=640,height=500,resizable=yes,scrollbars=1,menubar=yes,');">Links</a>&#160;]<!-- end-ref --></p>    </font>     ]]></body><back>
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</person-group>
<article-title xml:lang="en"><![CDATA[The Common Presuppositions of Hermeneutics and Ethics: Types of Rationality beyond Science and Technology]]></article-title>
<source><![CDATA[Research in Phenomenology]]></source>
<year>1979</year>
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<source><![CDATA[Science and Religion: Some historical perspectives]]></source>
<year>1991</year>
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<source><![CDATA[The Emergence of a Scientific Culture: Science and the Shaping of Modernity 1210-1685]]></source>
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